For this blog post, I want you to consider the main text (Miguel Ruiz) we have studied the last few days. Think of the songs we listened to in class (Linkin Park and The Cranberries) and the implications of their messages. Now respond to the following prompt:
To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"? Be specific and succinct in your explanation. Ask questions, answer questions, and comment back and forth with each other. I look forward to reading and responding to your posts.
Mr. Burns
To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
ReplyDeleteOne thing that I thought of this morning while I was thinking about our class the other day and "The Domestication and Dream of the Planet" that inspired me to post was Aristotle's theory of Forms. Last year in Mr. Yip's class, this was one thing that really messed with my head...how he believed that everything on earth was "essentially or "really" the Form and that the phenomena were mere shadows mimicking the Form; that is, momentary portrayals of the Form under different circumstances." I couldn't allow myself to believe that I was sitting in the "imaginary" desk which was only a portrayal of the "perfect" desk which only exists in a life that is not ours. This is similar to our lesson of "Domestication and Dream of the Planet" because I did not want to believe that the rules that were set out for us were not only self-limiting but took away our joy and just created more suffering. This "book of laws" seemingly rules our world and leads us to dreams based on those rules when we may have dreams much higher than those. I believe that we are "free" up to a certain extent, and that is until we break the rules. I know that I have my freedoms at home but I also have strict boundaries as to what I can do. However even though I believe I am free right now, I believe that when we become of age to make our own choices we become subjugated. I think this because, even though we are able to make our own decisions, we grow afraid of what greater consequences we may have because higher powers cannot be involved so we decide to stay on the path of the "book." I also believe that we have the full power to decide who we are. The only real issue that Ruiz stated about being ourselves was the fear of acceptance. ONce you drop that fear of being accepted, you are allowed to be yourself, and by acting like yourself you will eventually find someone who appreciates you the way you are. Quite frankly I don't mind being subjugated when I grow older because it will keep me out of trouble but what I do fear is that by doing this and not straying from the path that I will lose what my true dream is. But as I said, I do believe that by simply losing the fear of being accepted, you can be your own person.
Thanks, Cortney. Nice connection! Leave it to Mr. Yip to steal my thunder! We're talking about Aristotle and that essay this week!
ReplyDeleteAlexis Ariza
ReplyDelete“Our belief system is like a Book of law that rules our mind. Without question, whatever is in that Book of Law, is our truth. We base all of our judgments according to the Book of Law, even if these judgments go against our own inner nature.” “Whatever goes against the Book of Law will make you feel a funny sensation in your solar plexus, and it’s called fear.” “Because everything that is in the Book of Law has to be true, anything that challenges what you believe is going to make you feel unsafe. Even if the Book of Law is wrong, it makes you feel safe. That is why we need a great deal of courage to challenge our own beliefs. Because even if we know we didn’t choose all these beliefs, it is also true that we agreed to all of them.”
The question “To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves?” kind of confuses me. This is because, the “Domestication and Dream of the Planet” article says that “even if we know we didn’t choose all these beliefs, it is also true that we agreed to all of them”. Based on this, if we agree with a belief, doesn’t that mean that we’ve chosen this belief? We’ve always had the option to disagree with different beliefs, so any belief that we agree with is a belief we have chosen. We have also always had the opportunity to go against our “Book of Law.” Like Courtney said, all we have to do is get past the fear of doing so --- of going against our own beliefs. In my case, I have already gone against my Book of Law and changed some of my beliefs. I was able to get past my fear. For example, I used to be Catholic like the rest of my family, but now I’m atheist. I was able to get past the fear that a god didn’t exist. So, like Courtney I think that if we are able to get past the fear of going against the Book of Law, we can truly become ourselves. I also agree with Courtney that we have to get past the fear of acceptance. We are so afraid of not being accepted by others that we become someone else, or we act differently than we normally would. Because of my fear of acceptance, I am really shy and quiet around people unless they are my friend or family member. Thus, I believe that in order to become ourselves, we have to get past the fear of going against the Book of Law and past the fear of acceptance.
Thanks for sharing your story, Alexis.
ReplyDeleteThat "fear" so in instilled within and without our minds that very notion of a "fear" is erased. We accept the agreement, regardless. We make an identification. Or, Perhaps even more dangerous, someone makes an identification for us.
"To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? or are we "subjugated"?"
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the article by Ruiz I am conflicted as to how to answer this question. All the morals and lessons we are taught when we are young indicate that we are free people and can decide for ourselves, but then that comes into question as well. If this is what has been instilled in our minds then it is what we believe, according to Miguel Ruiz. So do we only believe we are free because that's what we were taught, but in reality (whatever that may be) we are really bound by our teachings when we were young? I do believe with Ruiz, I believe we are raised to be like our parents and our role models. It makes sense to me that if we are raised to believe in a certain religion, that religion will stay with us throughout our life even though we ourselves never sat down, looked at all the religions in the world, and chose the one we wanted. Our parents/guardians/role-models have chosen for us. I do believe that some people can grow up to be the exception like we always see in some romantic comedy, but for the most part, I agree with Ruiz and think that we don't really get to decide the majority of what we believe and who we become.
Ruiz talks about a book of law. The girls above me have already commented on it, but I think it's a really important aspect in Ruiz's article. We take that book and instill it in our minds. We collect "data" from our parents until they've decided (or we have) that we've collected enough of that "data" to go into life on our own and share that "data" with our kids. All this data really is is morals and beliefs that our parents want us to believe, or sometimes maybe even don't want us to believe (such as smoking, drinking, etc.), but they act as role models anyways and we follow their examples.
To me, it makes sense that we would follow this book of law, after all isn't it easier just to do as you've been shown rather than think for yourself?
Moira N.
ReplyDeleteIt is funny that Courtney mentioned Mr. Yip’s class, because I too made a connection to his class while reading the Domestication and Dream of the Planet. But I made my connection to when we read The Allegory of the Cave. The main idea of the story is that all we know is what we can see. If we go our whole life living in a cave only being able to see shadows, then that is all we will know of reality. In this story one of the people who live in this cave gets set free. They get a chance to see the real world, at first they miss the cave but they end up loving the outer world. When the get back to the cave no one else will believe him and they think he is the one who knows nothing.
In class we talked about whether or not we had a choice in what we could do. Some people felt it was an illusion of choice and others felt we really did have freedom. The Allegory of the Cave really sums up my belief on the topic. We feel that what we can see and do in our life is all any one can do. What we are taught by our family and teachers is all we know and that is all there is to our life. We do not realize that we can do more and that there is more “out there” until we see first hand how others live and what else there is to the world. Some may believe us and others may reject your ideas because it does not fit into there own life they have made. So I agree with Courtney, Alexis, and Christina when they say that we have to go against the book of laws to find who we truly are. We have to explore and be willing to see new things to be able to find our true selves. Like every one has talked about above me the problem with finding who you truly are, is the fear of not being accepted. To answer Christina’s question about isn’t it easier to do what you have always done then to be different. Yes it is it, yet to truly live to your full potential and to be who you really are you have to suffer hard ship. You must go against those who oppress you, and open your eyes to everything there is in the world.
I believe we choose how much we can be ourselves. It depends on how willing we are to think outside the box and go against what others think. We have to decide who we are and what we like and what we can do. To decide all these things we have to see what the world is really about and what there is out there. I think we are originally subjugated and some of the brave go against the pact and try to be free.
To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
ReplyDeleteThis question is tough to answer because like christina said " all the morals and lessons we are taught when we are young indicate that we are free people and can decide for ourselves." But like Ruiz said we are not free and I believe to find who we truly are and what we truly believe in will only happen if we can take apart the illusion of reality. Ruiz also talked about fear and if we went against the book of law in society then we will be overwhelmed with fear. Not from just going against the book of law but also the fear of being punished and looked upon as a bad person. All this contributes to how and when you decide to be who you really are. People won't express who they really are because they don't want to be filled with this overwhelming fear and punishment. The fear is so deeply programmed into our minds that we will punish ourselves to the point of injustice like the article described. People want reward and acceptance. People will manipulate there beliefs to do so. When all you want is reward and acceptance then you won't be able to decide who you are without the influence of the book of law. Christina also brought up how it's just easier to do as you are shown rather than to think for yourself. If you do as you are shown then you know it's a safe and secure and filled with reward and acceptance. Not many people will stand out and say what they truly believe. We have to be willing to decide for ourselves and stand out from the crowd. I agree with the other comments on how we have to go against the book of law to find who we truly are.
Ashley Moreau 10/3/10 Period C
ReplyDeleteWe say that we live in a free country, and that as individuals we have all the freedom to do and say as we wish. But is that really true? Are we really free? In “Domestication and the Dream of the Planet,” Miguel Ruiz brings up some very intriguing points of how we aren’t completely free beings, but instead controlled by the ‘Book of Law.’ As others have commented, what is instilled in this book is what we perceive to be the ‘correct’ thing to do, and as Ruiz states “we base all of our judgments according to the Book of Law, even if these judgments go against our inner nature.” (Ruiz, 9) All of the agreements in this book are what controls our individual dreams in life. He talks further about dreams, saying that ‘the dream of planet’ has many rules that we learn to follow at a young age. These rules outline what is the right and wrong thing to do in a situation. If we break the rules, then ourselves and others punish us.
So as Cortney and others said, we are only free to the extent that this book of law allows us to be. When we break the rules, our freedom is taken away from us and we are punished. However, as we get to be older we are beginning to receive more freedom and have basically made it to the point where we no longer need to be domesticated. But no matter what age we are, there will always be limitations, both physical and emotional, that will keep us from being “free and autonomous individuals.” However, I wouldn’t say that we are completely “subjugated.” We have the freedom to choose to break these rules and chose the type of person we want to be, however we must be able to accept the punishment that may come with these choices.
Although, I agree that the extent to which we decide who we are is very limited. When we are born, we don’t get to choose many things, our hair and eye color, our religion, our names, and our social status, among many other things. Parents, preventing us from becoming our own person domesticate us to act and behave in ways that are acceptable to society. This domestication limits our choices; we are too young to make decisions that determine ourselves. By the time we realize this it’s sometimes almost to late too make drastic changes in who we are.
We are possessed by the desire to please others and sometimes we never take the time to please ourselves. We live in a society ruled by fear, people are so scared to be different, or change themselves because of others. They want to be accepted by others. I don’t think this is right; people should not have to live in fear of being different. People should want to be different, be their own person, because everyone else is already taken. If we were all the same, life would be boring. There would be nothing to live for.
Briana Ruggiero-
ReplyDelete"As children, we didn't have the opportunity to choose our beliefs, but we agreed with the information that was passed to us from the dream of the planet via the other humans" (5, Ruiz) I picked this quote to open up my blog with because I feel like Ruiz made a great point. As children everything in our lives are decided for us. Until we reach that age where we realize we can actually say "NO" for ourselves. I believe that we, ourselves, can decided who we are. It will just take time. Of course at a younger age as child we cannot decide much of anything, because our parents are raising us. However, once we reach the stage where we can say "NO" for ourselves, we begin to grow into our own self. We can stop being who our parents, and others want us to be. Of course there will be the pressure of friends, and role models in our lives that will influence our decisions. However, ultimately, we have the power to say "NO" and choose what we would like to be. It's a matter of wanting to be your own person enough to cut out what others want you to be. You have to forget and stop listening what people tell you is right and wrong, and decide for yourself. "Just as the government has a book of laws that rule the society's dream, our belief system is the Book of Laws that rules our personal dreams." (11, Ruiz) This quote is the agreement I have to answer your second question. We are "sujugated" individuals. Yes, we have the power to make decisions. That would be the "free" part of being a human being. However, we can only make decisions to a certain extent. There are rules that influence our decisions we make, such as government rules, or school rules.
I can connect to what Courtney said about Plato. He focused on how everything we saw was an illusion. One example I remember specifically from Mr. Yip's lesson was that there is no perfect right angle. The prefect right angle, and perfect anything for that matter, is in a world outside our own. The point of this is example, is to bring to our attention that we have an illusion of being free. There is always going to be some higher form of authority over us that will put restrictions on decisions we make. I believe, that humans are free to a certain extent.
To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, these questions can be looked at in two ways. The first, is that no, we do not get to decide who we are, we have no choice in determining ourselves and we are not free and autonomous individuals but instead subjagated. The people who believe this feel that they become what people teach them to be. That values and beleifs are drilled into their heads until they have nothing else to believe. I dont think this is true. I do think that as children, it is harder to be ourselves because most of our thoughts come from our parents beliefs because as children we are around our parents the most. But once we branch out into the world we are no longer limited to our parents beliefs, but we have the option to develop our beliefs based on others opinions too. This is all still confusing to me but the way I see it is that we have no choice of beliefs or values until we enter the real world, then we may customize our thoughts if we choose so.
The other way of looking at it, is that The people we know and listen to in childhood, (mostly our family) has instilled their ideas and beliefs in our heads (which has been instilled in their heads and their parents heads and so on) so deep that there is no way of completely changing it at any time in life. For example if someone is raised christian and later on decides they are agnostic or atheist, still has a part of their brain that beleives there is a god. there is also the idea that people are afraid to show who they are in fear of being judged by others. I also believe in this, because i judge people all the time, i get judged, we all judge others and we all judge ourselves. I Think that "Zombie" and "Numb" are two songs that prove we have the ability to change because we all would like to be less like others and more like ourselves. It is now a matter of when we are able to deny the book of law.
Lydia Hopkins
ReplyDeleteOur parents basically decide who we are going to be when we are born. We live to own up to our futures that our parents have set up for us. We do everything we can to make our parents happy and avoid the punishment that Ruiz talks about in his essay. Soon we become older and we start to see other paths that we can take that our parents might now have wanted us to take. This is the rebellion part that makes it seem cool or fun to do the opposite of what our parents want us to do. So we can actually choose who we want to be whenever we are ready to. We can either stay on our parents path or go in the total opposite direction. Nothing is stopping us, besides the law of course and punishment, but we can really be whoever we want to be as long as we are willing to face the consequences involved in that choice.
In my opinion, we are "free and autonomous individuals". As humans, we have the chance to do whatever our heart desires, so we can create what we want to be using our parents ideas that have been installed in our heads since we were born, or what we want ourselves to be. In the song nunb, they talk about getting away from whoever is trying to control them. That someone could be there parents or even a friend. When they say "cause everything that you thought I would be has fallen apart right in front of you" they are talking about how they have disapointed somebody and they are changing who they are no matter what anybody thinks. They want to be whoever they want to be, not what somebody else wants them to be.
Folks - Great insight and conversation here. I'm so please you're making connections to other classes.
ReplyDeleteAshley, I like your comment about desire and pleasing others. It definitely is tied to our notions of selfhood. It makes me wonder, if we didn't have others in our lives, who would we be? How would we live?
Kyle, thanks for bringing in "Numb" and "Zombie" into the discussion. Those are important texts to consider as we try to include multiple perspectives and understandings to this issue.
When we are born, nothing is chosen by us, our parents choose everything, from our names to the clothes we wear. All of our ideas and beliefs have been "installed" into our brains by our parents, and our religions. We never had a say, and we would just go with it to make our parents happy. As we grow older, those things do not really change. Our parents still have control on our lives, and we don't get a say in it. Even our religion is chosen for us, and we live by the rules and regulations of that religion. Everything our parents do, is to help us in the future, but that may not be the path we want to go in. As young children, we would always listen to our parents, trying to avoid getting punished, as Ruiz says in the article. We always want to please our parents, and we do not want to be a "failure" and disappoint our loved ones. But as Lydia said, when we grow older, and our ideas for the future may change, and our paths may change to a place our parents were trying to keep us away from. Different paths are found and this is when the "teenage rebellion" kicks in. We find it fun to rebel against our parents and beliefs, because we are trying to find out who we really are as human beings. We want to find out what else is out there besides, the normal things that we see each day. As they said in the song Numb, "Can't you see you are smothering me, holding too tightly, afraid to loose control". This is how it is when we are children. Our parents have the control, and we are the ones being smothered. And as we grow, our parents still want that control, as we are trying to get away from it.
ReplyDeletePersonally, i think that we are "subjugated" individuals to some extent. Even as we grow older, there will always be rules telling what we can and can not do. Sure, we can follow our hearts, and do what we want to do, but there will always be something standing in our way, whether it is a friend, the governments laws, or ourselves. We still have the tendency to go back to what our loved ones said when we were little, and let that get in our heads. Our own decisions are still influenced by our parents, because we still want to be accepted.
In a word, no. We do not decide who we are. On the whole, who we are is determined by our genetics, our environment, and, as time goes on, our experiences. As Ruiz said in "Domestication and Dream of the Planet", we are "programmed" to behave a certain way. We are told what is right and wrong and we receive rewards and punishments to reinforce this. We also observe the behaviors of our parents and other people we look up to and imitate what we see. It is what we are taught and what we observe that determine our behaviors. This relates to the “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” through the idea that in the banking method, we are taught concrete facts without the knowledge of the significance or real meaning of these facts. As others have said, it is possible to stray from the example set by our parents as we learn more about the world and follow different beliefs—the “rebellious” stage, as Ruiz referred to it as—in which case, no, we do not necessarily have to follow the example of people we see as authoritative figures. It is easier to conform to the beliefs of people around you who you have looked up to your whole life, but there are exceptions. As we learn more, we may discover beliefs we agree with more than what we are used to. However, the fact is we still have to learn these beliefs from someone else. Even if we were to form our own beliefs, they would have to come from some source of information. When it comes down to it, our decisions are determined by who we are, and who we are is determined by our genetics and experiences. The only answer I can offer to the question of whether or not we are subjugated is it depends on how you look at it. On one hand, we do have the ability to make our own decisions as we go through life. We gather information which then determines what we believe. However, this is limited. Again, the choices we make come down to our genetics and experiences—neither of which we have any say in. It’s hard to explain—basically we have free will, but we don’t. On the other hand, as long as we have the illusion of free will, what difference does it make? People are content with the free will they have—or think they have—so if it does not actually exist, isn’t the illusion of free will good enough?
ReplyDeleteAlso, I can see what Courtney, Moira, and Briana are saying about learning about Plato in Mr. Yip's class. This is difficult to think about because it completely goes against what you are used to believing and what you want to believe. In that sense, it's a concept that takes us out of our comfort zone and forces us to question what we know.
Mark-
ReplyDeleteI believe that we can decide who we are to a pretty high extent. Don’t we already do it every day? I think Mr. Burns brought up this point on Thursday or Friday, how we act in front of our friends, brothers, sisters, parents, teachers, etc.(Read this sentence slowly--)My opinion is that since we act different ways in front of different people and that how you act shows who you are, doesn’t it mean we get to decide who we are to a high extent since we act different ways in front of different people?
Plus there is another way to decide who you are and that is by making choices in your life. When you are born you don’t get to decide who you are, but as life goes on you can make more and more different choices wether they be good or bad. These choices you make will reflect on who you are. I remember in my eighth grade english class my teacher said at what ages a person needs people to look after him the most and the least. When you’re young and when you are old, people look after you the most and in the middle you look after yourself more. I feel as though this example can also work for when in life you make your choices and these choices decide who we are. When you are around twenty-five to forty years old you make the most amount of choices for yourself which means you decide who you really are the most in those ages. We can start deciding who we are when we are young and change or keep those choices that you made earlier in your life when you are in your mid-ages. When you are old people will look after you more often and you will have less of an opportunity to make your own choices and decide who you are anymore.
I believe we are free at deciding who we are more when we are in our mid-ages and less when we are really young and really old.
To what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"? Be specific and succinct in your explanation.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I do not think we have a choice on who we are. All of our lives we are told what to do, who to be, what is right and what is wrong. We are trained to be exactly what our parents want us to be. Like the article says we are told we are good kids when we do exactly as we are told. Think about it, were your parents honors students? Mine were, and they expect nothing less than an A. I agree with Nicole in that we are "programmed" to be "carbon copies" of our parents.
Personally, I believe that we can only determine who we want to be in our career paths. I was very surprised the article did not touch upon this topic. This is one thing I have branched completely diffrently from my parents and thats something their accepting with. I want to go into the law field and my parents are in the buisness and medical field. I think that this is a way that we find ourselves, this is an option we can have. By finding our calling, we find ourselves.
I believe that we are "subjugated". We are controlled by the law, family, society, tradition and by many other aspects that we never even thought about. In the Constitution we are told that we are free people, but are we really? Do we honestly get to be "free"? Is there even such thing as free? There is so many rules that to a certain extent I feel it blocks out our freedom. Our family wants us to be as they are. They are afraid of change as we have discussed in the articles,and if we want to change it then it sometimes is not welcomed. In society, thats where we are subjugated the most. To be different is a "sin". It is not accepted and cannot be accepted, or so we are told. We have to change ourselves to fit THEIR standards in order to be a part of the whole. To be honest I don't think thats fair. Now as for tradition, tradition itself is afraid of change. We are not allowed to change what is has been going on for generations. How are we supposed to define ourselves in traditions that were made years ago in a society much diffrent than ours? We are not allowed to be ourselves in this society, and finally my question is do we even know who "ourself" is if we are not "allowed" to ever show it?
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ReplyDelete-Joey F.
ReplyDeleteTo what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
I agree strongly when Ruiz says that we really don't have any choices. Most of the choices that we make have already been chosen for us. Ever since we have been little kids we have been "subjugated". We were brought up with the belief that our parents instilled in us and have really had no say in the matter. Our parents have always told us how to do things and when to do it.Then when we reach the early age af 18 we get the feeling of freedom. But, as Ashley said is this really the case? Are we really free? The answer to that is no. There are two reasons why. First, is that society will always have us tied down with laws, rules, and regulations. Second, is that we really never have the chance to be who we really are. Because of the choices that have ultimatly been chosen for us we do not get to be ourselves. This ties into a connection that I made with the song "Zombie". In the song there was a line that stuck out to me, one that I , myself could see Ruiz asking. The line is "What is in your head". From this I could see Ruiz asking what are you thinking right now? If society and choices had no role in who you are right now, what would you be like? What is ultimatly your true personality. So to me when the question "Are we free and autonomous individuals or are we subjugated?" is posed. I feel that the answer is no we are not free, yes we are subjugated. Being that the simple reason is that we really ahve got no choices.
-Tim Raheb
ReplyDeleteWe do get to decide some things in life, but most things are already decided for us. There are daily things that we get to decide such as what we wear, and what we eat for breakfast. Simple things like that are basically all that we decide. Looking a bigger and more complex decisions, we do not have much say about them. Religion and beliefs are already decided for us before we are even born. We as humans are born into what religion we believe in. As we grow up, our parents/guardians teach us what to do and how to act. They are always telling us what is right and what is really wrong. Do we ever sit down and think about what we believe is right and wrong? Not really, because we figure that what our parents/guardians told us was 100% correct, and whatever we think will most likely be wrong. The times that we get to decide and believe in things is usually in our minds. When we are walking out in public or in school, we see various kinds of people and think about what we see them as. We make decisions such as if we think they are nice or mean, or how we think they look. Those are the times that we decide what we think and feel. "Numb" was a great song to listen to because it is true how we are trying to be more of ourselves. We are not happy to be like others, and want to be different. Therefore, I think we are both free and subjugated. This is because, as I had said before, we are able to make small decisions by ourselves, yet when it comes to bigger decisions, we listen to others and are not as free.
Taylor Flax.
ReplyDeleteI, unlike others, did not have a hard time answering this question. I truly believe that we never had the choice to decide who we are or what we are going to be. Also we have few to no choice when determining ourselves.
I agree with what Nichole is saying when she says “On the whole, who we are is determined by our genetics, our environment, and, as time goes on, our experiences. As Ruiz said in "Domestication and Dream of the Planet", we are "programmed" to behave a certain way.” This is so true. The way we work is determined from the beginning by our parents who’s genetics shape us. From the start they decide what color skin, hair, and eyes we will have. Also like I will say further down we cannot chose our environment. And our experiences are predetermined too. You gain experiences by being in either the right place at the wrong time or the wrong place at the right time. Either way you do not chose what will happen.
When we are born we cannot chose to be born into a family that has a lot of money, or one that doesn’t. You don’t get to chose whether your born in Beverly Hills or in the hills of the middle east. There is no choice making occurring here. Also when a child you cannot chose your parents. If they will be abusive or push you to achieve your (their) goals is not for you to decide. You basicly have no choice in anything as you grow up. "Can't you see you are smothering me, holding too tightly,” Your parents control you so much that Ruiz says that they basicly smother you. If you do have a choice it is two options. One way, the way people (your parents) want you to go, or the other way, the way that isn’t so good. When you go the other way your ‘inner judge’, from Ruiz’s book, tells you it is wrong and you can feel the guilt.
In the song Zombie, I disagree with what it is saying. Just because you don’t have any options or cannot decide things for yourself that doesn’t make you a zombie. You are still living your life to the fullest but you just don’t know how full it can actually be. You are not walking around brain dead, and slow. You are living your life just not choosing how.
I suppose to the next question we must ask ourselves, then, is what does it mean to have the "illusion of free choice"?
ReplyDeleteWe have the freedom to be whom and what we want to be but it is up to us to take the opportunity to step back and look at our beliefs. This is what truly decides our life on this earth.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading “The Domestication and The Dream of the Planet” Miguel Ruiz made some pretty interesting points. He believes that we all follow this belief system called the “book of laws”. This is the book that controls everyone’s dreams in life and instills the rights and wrongs in us. The book is what makes us choose the things that we do regardless if they are right or wrong. But if we choose the wrong thing we have to be able to handle the punishment that is given. We become so afraid of the punishments we receive for doing what we believe that we just change our beliefs to receive the reward. I personally think that if you believe strongly in something you should stand up for your belief no matter what punishment is dealt to you.
Also Ruiz says that our parents control us. In some ways that is true. When we are young they choose our religion, our name, and they tell us what they believe is right and wrong. We will follow it at first because we don’t know any better. As we grow and become more knowledgeable of what is actually in the world, we can always change and not follow what our parents have taught us, even if it is the right thing. Like Alexis said, she was brought up as a Catholic but as she grew her beliefs changed, so she changed her religion to match her beliefs. Obviously I have limits, I have set things of what I can and cannot do, but I will not allow my parents to have a say in my beliefs and dreams. Parents can give you their opinion and tell you what they want you to do with your life, where they want you to go, or how they want you to live. However, in the end, you have the final say.
ReplyDeleteNow to answer the questions to what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? I feel like we can do whatever we want in our lives. It all depends on your dreams and opinions about yourself. Like in the song “numb” by Lincoln Park, we can either choose to conform to what others want us to become or we can go against the “undertow” and be different. People cannot allow the fear of judgment and acceptance to keep them from their most important dreams in life. Like Courtney said there will be someone in the world that will accept you for whom you are no matter what you look like or what you believe. Also I feel that there is always someone that believes that same thing as you. Maybe you can be the one to make the difference and make them feel confident enough to go against the fear and follow there dreams.
Yes, there are a lot of people that will never be who they want to be because they are afraid of being judged, or maybe they don’t feel like they deserve it. Like Ruiz said “nobody abuses us more then we abuse ourselves.” This is something that I believe is true, people get down on themselves so easily for the little things. When we learn to get past this then we will truly find ourselves and live our lives to our standards.
For the final question Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"? I believe that we are free and autonomous, but only If we learn how to push the superficial and insignificant parts of our lives behind us and just focus on the dreams that we have for ourselves. If we don’t then we will be subjugated and just like every other person in the crowd, which would make life boring and immaterial. So, basically we can choose our own path and go against the rules and be happy, or we can conform to what we believe everyone else is doing and be unhappy. That is the problem that has to be solved.
Isabella-
ReplyDeleteTo what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
I think there may be some extent where we decide (for ourselves) who we want to be. Sometimes we can pick our own interests and hobbies, we can pick who we want to vote for in an election or who's opinion we want to side with. We can always pick who we want to be, but it's just a matter of going with what we choose that lets us choose for ourselves. In determining ourselves, we can follow the path that we want to take. We can follow rules to live by, or we can go against them and make ourselves an original. Majority of us pick the career we want to pursue in or some of us work at another job that may not be the job of our choice. We never really have the chance to fully decide who we want to be. There will always be someone disagreeing with the choice we take saying that maybe it may not be the right way for us. But most of the time that doesn't phase us. We'll do what we want in order to be or get what we want. I don't think we'll ever be "free and autonomous individuals". There will always be something or someone standing in the way of what we decide for ourselves. For example when Ruiz started talking about the Book of Law. He said "We base all of our judgments according to the Book of Law, even if these judgments go against our own inner nature." We follow this "Book of Law" and the "Judge" because it is stating the truth and what we need to follow, even if it does go against us. And if we do something that goes against the Book of Law, we will be judged forever about the decision we made and what path we took. We never fully decide who we want to be and what we are because there is always someone or something standing in between what we want.
In relation to the song Numb, they state many times "All I want to do is be more like me and be less like you". From the day we were born, maybe even before that, our parents and family members have been shaping our lives for us. They've been thinking of the "perfect child" and how what that baby would grow up to be. It's heartbreaking to them when that "perfect child" does something that's not perfect. Whether it's making a bad decision or getting a bad grade; that child is no longer "perfect". If that "perfect child" were to tell their family and parents they wanted to be less like them and be more of their own person, that'd be even worse than a bad grade or a bad decision. Every family wants their kid to be just like them. No one can decide what they want for themselves anymore because their lives have already been shaped for them way before they knew what was happening.
To have the "illusion of free choice", I think it means that we think we can make these decisions for ourselves but there's always something in the way of that. Again, the "Book of Law" comes into play. There's a Judge inside of our head always judging us and our decisions. We're never free enough to make our own decisions. Even though we live somewhere with freedom, we are under no circumstances "free".
Melissa Sorkin-
ReplyDeleteTo what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
Similar to Taylor's outlook on the "Domestication and Dream of the Planet" as well as both of the songs we listened to and interpreted in class, I also believe that we do not have a choice in determining who we are. Many of the previous responses had mentioned that in someways we are able to make choices for ourselves, however I have to disagree. Every choice we make whether we realize it or not goes through some sort of thought process, whether its long or short, important or unimportant, there is a reason why we do the things we do. However, how we are raised, what we have grown up to become, and the rules and consequences instilled within our thoughts by both society and our parents are not originated by us. The minute we are born who we become is ultimately out of our hands, and decided by the childhood and society we live in, which then shapes who we are and how we think. Therefore, when we make decisions that we believe we are deciding, truly these decisions are decided by the person we have been "created" to be, not who we truly are. This in result, is the "illusion" that we are able to make our own choices. However, this then brings up the questions of, how can we become our true selves, and at this time and age is that even possible?
In result, due to us being unable to make our own choices as a person, we are subjugated. Our society, parents, and other aspects of our life have complete control of who we become, and therefore why we do the things we do. This is best described in both the "Domestication and Dream of the Planet" as well as the song "Numb." However, as some of my other classmates mentioned before, they made the connection to the song Zombie. Although I agree with Taylor when she explained that we truly are not zombies and we don't walk around with the mindset that we can't make our own decisions, and we are subjugated. I believe the word zombie relates more to the "illusion" or "fog" within our minds. This fog or illusion is ultimately what hides the "zombie" within us, from us, and from reaching our surface. The zombie is the mindset of being controlled, while the illusion is what keeps us sane, and keeps this "zombie" from ruling our lives.
Cameron G.
ReplyDeleteTo what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
We have a choice in this world for who we want to become. There is no such thing as an "illusion of choice", but the simple obstacle of what is our other choice? For you see, there is always another choice,with consequences that will follow you also. I could choose instead of not killing anyone in my lifetime to simply going out and murdering all who cross my path. Or I could instead of going to school tommorow just ditch it. But the problem is the consequence that follows this other choice. If I murder someone,I will probably be tried and killed in return. Or if I ditch school, I might be arrested. Then with these other choices comes the "reward/punishment" system which brings us into order and "domesticates" us as Miguel is pointing out.
It is a known fact that we determine who we become in the future, the problem is that this development of our own identity can take years. For example, I was born into a Protestant family and followed it for about 14 years. Then I decided to start looking at the facts and started to question what I believe and turn out to become an Agnostic. But thefact of the matter is that it took 14 years for me to start developing this part of my identity. Miguel is wrong when he said that "...we have no choice of anything when were born, before we are born, and after we are born," but we do have a choice after we look at the bigger picture.
Now if we are "free and autonamous" individuals raises a different story dothe the fact that this varies from situation to situation. In China for example, people are subjugated into the collective workforce, having no sense of identity. While in America, we have a privelage of being individual from everything else. It also depends on the mind set of the person and education. From Pedagogy of the Oppressed, we see that un-educated peoples have no individuality and are subjugated to the state. For them to develope a personality/individuality, they must be aided by the privilaged. But overall, this category depends on so many things.
Finally, the song "Zombie" by The Cranberries is a great explanation of how we are devoid of choices constantly through our lives. "But you see, it's not me, it's not my family.
In your head, in your head they are fighting," this shows that they are born with this sense to fight and really have no idea why they do it, or they develope a reason of their own. But either way they become a zombie to whatever they are following. "Its the same old theme since ninteen-sixteen," also displays how this mindset has been blindly pasted down since generations before them. Overall, the individuality dies to ideas that we have no idea of but follow anyway.
Donovan-
ReplyDeleteTo what extent do we get to decide who we are? What choices do we have in determining our selves? Are we "free and autonomous individuals" or are we "subjugated"?
Determining to what extent people get to decide who they are is like determining how many galaxies are in our universe, possible but not likely(sorry for the bad analogy, first thing that came to my head). The reason for this is because everyone is different, and it all depends. It depends on the your parents, religion, or whatever factor it may be. Some people are given more opportunity to shape themselves than others. This just goes back to the idea of "individuality" that we talked about in class.
Until you are an adult, everyone has very different choices in determining who they are. It all depends on the people who have power over you, which in most cases, is your parent or guardian. They are the determining factors to how much freedom you have. Another factor is the government/law. Everyone has to live under the same government and laws so that is a constant variable(of course this is different for different countries but I am speaking regarding the United States). Anyway, when you are not an adult, the ability for you to decide who you are all depends on those who have power over you, which is your parent or guardian. Some guardians may give more power to you than others, so that's why determining to what extent do we get to decide who we are is so difficult.
Once you get past the stage where guardians have power over you, there are two factors left that determine to what extent are you are "free and autonomous individuals". Those factors are the government, and yourselves. Obviously, once you are an adult, you are pretty much free to determine who you are, as long as it's within the boundaries of the government and it's laws. The factor that sparks controversy is ourselves. Technically we are free to decide who we as long as it does not go against government and laws. What limits us to determine ourselves is ourselves. How we were "domesticated" and how we think is what limits our freedom. We were taught to not go against our religion and beliefs, and what we were taught is right. I think this relates to the song "Zombie" we listened to in class. One of the quotes from the song says:"but your see, it's not me, it's not my family, in your head, in your head they are fighting". I think the Cranberries are implying that conflict is in your head. It is really up to you to determine how free you are.
Braeden Dorocz
ReplyDeleteI think that we entirely chose who we are. Regardless of all the subjugation that goes on, it is a choice we make when we accept subjugation. What happens it that we trade our freedom for safety and comfort. Anyone willing to forsake comfort and safety can have freedom. But, the true fact is, very, very few people are willing to make this trade. The massive popular support that many of the facist and communist governemnts of the 20th century had is the most clear example of this.
Henry Sales
ReplyDeleteBased on these texts and songs, I believe that in our modern, domineering, very controlling society where 'fitting in' and sticking to the status quo is all that matters, individually, we don't have as much control in our destinies as we are always led to believe. While we can certainly go above and beyond this mindless status quo, very often, where we end up depends sometimes more so on our background and past expreiences, rather than the choices we make in the present. The Cranberries song, "Zombie", really spoke to me in the way that it talked about the concept that while you yourself may have not lost a family member, the tragedy of your nation is forever burning at your mind, hence the repeated line, "In your head, in your head,". I think it is this that forces some people to become mindless drones of a monotone society, like in the Miguel Ruiz piece. The Linkin Park song, "Numb", also addressed this very important theme. He keeps talking about how society just wants him to fit in, ("caught in the undertow, every step that I take is another mistake to you"), and how he just wants to branch out and become his own person that he knows he can be, when he says, "All I want to do is be more like me and less like you". In my opinion, the first meaningful choice that one has to make early on, and its quite difficult to make later in life, is whether that person wants to be a boring, mindless drone of of our very built up, institutionalized culture, or if we want to live our own life, and pave out our own desity for ourselves. Once we are able to break free from the iron grip that is so eerily similar to fascist and communist regimes that Braeden referenced, can we finally start making important choices about our futures. Getting back to the original prompt, only then can we truly be "free and autonomous individuals". If we are anything but that, we are simply among the sad masses of the "subjugated".
Well said, Henry. I appreciate your insight and connections.
ReplyDeleteUmar H-
ReplyDeleteWhat is freedom? To some freedom might be the type of clothes they wear, one’s religion and who they associate with. That’s what most of us think of when we think of freedom, right? But when you look at the concept of freedom at its core you realize that all of our decisions are based upon the choices of the greater mankind. Our dreams, choices, decisions and viewpoints are all based upon what society is. And based on my reading of “Domestication and the Dream of the Planet” I firmly believe that our freedom extends only as far as deciding how we may interpret society and its culture.
It seems to me like a circle. Society and culture ultimately fuel who we are as individuals and we has humans determine what is accepted in our society and what craze dominates our culture. Our freedom comes in, in the instances where we choose how to interpret our culture and then when we decide what to contribute to it. That is what I believe makes famous people seem so godly to some. They single-handedly are able to successfully manipulate the very fabric of our culture with such ease because of their choices which in turn influence our choices. I also believe that this is what gives the gods and the God so much power us mere mortals. For He (or they) is able to manipulate the choices of billions with a book, which is believed to be a piece of humanity. This divine force uses our humanity against us to influence us. While pondering this, I say to myself, is that what makes one divine? The ability to manipulate us into choosing our fates based upon what He thinks is right? As Mr. Ruiz states, “As children, we didn’t have the opportunity to choose our beliefs, but we agreed with the information that was passed to us from the dream of the planet via other humans.” (Ruiz 5) So now this Higher Being is using our family, friends and culture to sway our choices in the way He seems fit? It looks as though our choices are limited. Either we choose to follow His will, or we choose to abandon Him and his ways. Now I used religion as an example while defining what I believe to be the extent of the human psyches ability to decide for itself of what or who it is.
Think about it, everywhere, in the latter paragraph, when I said “He”, when referring to God, I can easily replace with the words “society or “culture”. It is our society that tells us what is acceptable and what it takes for us to be of the norm and culture is the norm; at its core it is what humanity finds acceptable.
Based upon this, again, that, the hand of humanity, when determining who it is and what it is supposed to do, looks to its society and culture and cannot decide what society and culture is but can only choose how it feels about society and its culture. Now saying this, you might claim, what about famous people that influence others every day? Well those are select few individuals who have seem to uncovered the secret of divinity and manipulate it to sell CD’s, clothes, ideas, beliefs, etc. They have reached divine status by becoming the gas that fuels the car label “Humanity”. Without them we are lost. And that is as far as we can go when deicing who we are. We, as individuals who willfully follow society and its culture, make choices and decisions based upon culture and society. And for those who choose to reject what is considered the norm and choose to act what most call “weird” and “freaky” well that’s as far their choice goes. And therefore, I conclude that we are “subjugated” when attempting to warp culture for not all have such a gift. But we are “free and autonomous individuals” when choosing to accept the will of society and its culture of rejecting it. Although my opinion might seem negative to a few, ponder this: what goes through your mind when making a decision?
Andrew Lemos
ReplyDeleteFreedom definitely exists, some have spoken about freedom and free will being an illusion, and that is plainly not true. We have choices to make every day. Umar pointed out that picking what you are going to wear to school is a choice. I can wear whatever I want to school tomorrow. I could where a shirt with a huge expletive written across the front although there would be consequences, I could wear a goofy turtleneck sweater, or I could wear a T shirt and jeans. However out of these choices, I'm likely to wear the T shirt and jeans. Why? What is my reason for exercising my free will and choosing this? I guess you could say that it's because this outfit is comfortable, or because I believe it looks good on me, but one of the chief reasons is because I think that dressing this way is going to fit in with everyone else. They Idea that we have no free will is false, but the fact is this process of domestication that we go through we end up wanting to conform. We end up wanting to exercise our free will in a narrow way. We end up taking choices away from ourselves because we are domesticated. Society forces us to eliminate extreme unusual things. There are still choices but they are insignificant. We can get to a point where all serious choices are eliminated by society so we can only exercise free will on insignificant things.
Are "freedom" and "free will" the same? Is Ruiz really talking about what kind of clothing we wear? Or is he examining something more? Isn't it an easy answer to say we have freedom because we wear what we want to wear, listen to what we want to listen to, and eat what we want to eat? Is there something more at play here? Attempt to consider these inquiries outside of the divine and outside of the superficial notions of a section on Facebook (favorite movie, favorite food, etc...)
ReplyDelete